Improving composition

Quote from jamlaw
I'm with the "if it looks right..." camp in the main. I think there is certainly much to be said for the excellent books and tuition out there, and a lot of theory can be learnt about thirds, converging lines, etc. But unless you go out and experiment with these theories, the penny will never drop.

The beauty of digital photography enables you to go out and take shot after shot, think more about how you are composing. Forget the lighting for a while, and just go out into the countryside or out into town and think about angles, lines, shapes, positioning. Take plenty of shots of the same thing but from a variety of angles/positions/focal length. When you get home, browse through the images and the ones that work will pop out at you. And I totally agree, whilst the "rules" can produce great images, knowing when to break them can produce that one in a million image!

If you shoot raw, then lighting is less important, as it's easier to fix. If you're not at the right angle, or not wide enough, you can't fix in PS! And if in doubt, go a little wider!

Quote from PhilWinterbourne
Sorry i think this is rubbish advice An understanding of basic composition means you don't have to shoot 1000's of random pics hoping to get a good one. 

Quote from kruse
Careful Phil, you're not supposed to hold an opposite view to another poster in this thread. I did and I was warned off

I was reduced to using emoticons to convey my opinion.

Cheers

Jeremy

Quote from Ian_Wilson

Oh for heaven sake Jeremy. As Tidal Kitten would say "MAN UP" I asked you and Gwentman very politely not to pursue your disagreement after you had both posted your opposing views twice and had both stated your case twice. I am very sorry if that spoiled your fun so much that you feel you now have to refer to it as if your feeling have been hurt. And as if I would have the nerve to 'warn you off' - you are twisting words. It was an extremely polite request, not a demand or a warning. You may enjoy arguing your point ad infinitum and trying to prove your debating skills but at the end of the day it doesn't half take things off topic, and I doubt many people can be bothered reading all the finer points of your arguments. I for one certainly lose interest in any thread that gets to that stage and was hoping to avoid that happening to this thread that I have found very useful and constructive thus far Yours politely and respectfully, Ian

Quote from kruse

I put an alternative, factual point and you emailed me that you did not wish me to pursue my point in your thread.  Perhaps 'warning me off' is putting it too strongly, but you were certainly trying to silence me.
Ultimately, I was left with the strong impression that you did not wish me to hold a contrary view to another poster in your thread.
My suggestion to you would be that if you don't wish certain people to comment in your threads you should state that clearly at the outset.  After all, the forums are public and people should be allowed to express themselves and, where necessary, argue their case, particularly if it is on-topic.
Jeremy

PS I shall now leave you to your thread. Let's just hope no-one else incurs your displeasure by disagreeing with anybody

Quote from kruse
So, as you seem quite content to reduce your own thread to a bickering playground, why the PMs?

* PM's explained fully above, and if I thought for one minute it would have become such an issue for you I would never have bothered

* I am not content about having to 'bicker', but I am even less happy to accept your public misrepresentation of my polite pm request to you so I was obliged to respond and now I am getting sucked into the sort of disagreement without end that you seem to enjoy as it happens so often.

* When you disagree with someone vehemently is that all good 'debate', but if I disagree with you in a courteous way that is dismissed as 'bickering'?

Perhaps, next time, rather than try and stifle contribution you come off the fence and just state your position.

* If I knew the answer I would not have asked the question. I am no expert and have no experience in the field of learning or teaching composition as it applies to model photography so I listen to what various people, including you, who know better than me and to anyone who is prepared to take the time to state their views.

Either you accept that composition can be taught (and the very fact that you have posted a thread asking for advice on that very matter would suggest you accept that it can) or you agree with Gwentman.

* My original question was this;

"How can I learn better compositional skills?
The most basic photography books cover the rule of thirds, leaving room for the subject to look/move into, and framing and leading lines, but is that it or is there more?

[r]Or at a certain level[/r] is it just something that is innate and can't be learned, something you either have or haven't got?

[r]Any advice gratefully received[/r]"

So yes, I accept it can be taught but 2 key phrases are 'at a certain level' and 'any advice gratefully received'

Perhaps, in future, you could simply state your own belief in the thread rather than try and manipulate it behind the scenes.

* Eh? My point was not to manipulate anything behind the scenes, it was a clearly failed attampt to try to keep the thread away from the bickering and endless debate that I am now wasting time on.

At this point, my position is that if Simon Young and Phil Winterbourne and Jeremy Kruse tell me that it can be taught then that is good enough for me to believe that it can be taught to a high level and it is worth me concentrating on this.

Please feel free to have the last word as always


Now, back to composition...I hope.

* Yes please

Jeremy