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model release---yes again ! please read on

Chrissie Red is off-line
20 June 2016 07:43
Chrissie_Red
Model
Chrissie_Red
Location
United Kingdom
Tayside
Perthshire

As an ex model heres my take on it.

Some models aren't happy to supply ID on shoots -unless its just to double check their age.
I've never been asked for ID and I wouldn't have agreed to be photographed with it even if I did (because thats kind of what they do in adult shoots when its being published in the states).

There are a few reason models would rather not show their ID.

Our real names - I don't mind people calling me Christine, but I don't want my full birth name tagged in images or on publications. Years ago a photographer got published in a magazine and they used my real name - So I presume he gave them it, I only discovered it long after he stopped doing photography and I have no way of contacting him. It's floating about on the internet and its not an un-classy publication but I am nude in the image. Who knows what my future might hold, I may want to adopt and even the most entitled photographer could have a tiny bit of sympathy if an 8+ year old image stopped or at least hindered me from starting a family because of how he freely gave out my name to be published.

If he was still around and I asked him to have the image removed from the internet then I'm sure he would because he was pretty reasonable and it was his mistake for using my birth name and not my modelling name anyway.

When it comes to address I prefer not giving it out to just anybody, I've heard so many horrible stories about photographers texting models saying "hey I'm working in X today and i just so happen to be across the road from your house want me to pop in for a coffee?!!" after one shoot and her not giving him her address he memorised it and just so happened to be across the road that day. Likely story, or theres the ones who find out where a model works and stays and bombards her with gifts. It's not cool .

I think in my last 5 years I only signed a handful of releases, people don't use them much at all apart from old schoolers.

My take on it is - (now i do photography) if a model I took pictures of asked me politely to remove an image then its gone no matter what the basis. I've not shot in a while though so they would be 3+ years old anyway so out of date and my photography has improved from then. If I was into model photography then it would give me a kick up the arse to shoot more/better stuff.

I think there should be a time limit - if a model asks politely 5 years after the shoot that she would like the image removed or at least have herself untagged then the photographer should respect that and not be stubborn about it. Yes you paid but 5 years use out of it is pretty good going better than most electrical appliances or even cars these days so just be cool.





somph is off-line
20 June 2016 09:28
somph
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Norfolk
Norwich

I did a group shoot once with an attractive young woman (in her 20's before I get slated). She asked that I take down the images, as she wanted to start a course in child welfare of some sort. There were only about 6 images that had put up. I do know that one of the other photographers refused to remove the images, as we had all paid for her time. My images are not easily visible on the web (archives must exist), but his images, taken at almost exactly the same time and almost exactly the same poses, are still visible. I've complied but her face and body are still out there...


Millzy82 is off-line
22 June 2016 15:11
Millzy82
Photographer
Millzy82
Location
United Kingdom
Hertfordshire


Quote from Chrissie_Red
As an ex model heres my take on it.

Some models aren't happy to supply ID on shoots -unless its just to double check their age.
I've never been asked for ID and I wouldn't have agreed to be photographed with it even if I did (because thats kind of what they do in adult shoots when its being published in the states).

There are a few reason models would rather not show their ID.

Our real names - I don't mind people calling me Christine, but I don't want my full birth name tagged in images or on publications. Years ago a photographer got published in a magazine and they used my real name - So I presume he gave them it, I only discovered it long after he stopped doing photography and I have no way of contacting him. It's floating about on the internet and its not an un-classy publication but I am nude in the image. Who knows what my future might hold, I may want to adopt and even the most entitled photographer could have a tiny bit of sympathy if an 8+ year old image stopped or at least hindered me from starting a family because of how he freely gave out my name to be published.

If he was still around and I asked him to have the image removed from the internet then I'm sure he would because he was pretty reasonable and it was his mistake for using my birth name and not my modelling name anyway.

When it comes to address I prefer not giving it out to just anybody, I've heard so many horrible stories about photographers texting models saying "hey I'm working in X today and i just so happen to be across the road from your house want me to pop in for a coffee?!!" after one shoot and her not giving him her address he memorised it and just so happened to be across the road that day. Likely story, or theres the ones who find out where a model works and stays and bombards her with gifts. It's not cool .




I genuinely understand your reasons but I ask for proof of ID for both proof of age and so that if I publish, the model has not given a false name thus their consent to the publication is invalid. I write my releases so the model understands I agree not to publish under their legal name. As long as there are people involved in something, there will usually be some disagreement hence why I usually seek a release in the hope of resolving a dispute before it can turn ugly.


Quote from Chrissie_RedMy take on it is - (now i do photography) if a model I took pictures of asked me politely to remove an image then its gone no matter what the basis. I've not shot in a while though so they would be 3+ years old anyway so out of date and my photography has improved from then. If I was into model photography then it would give me a kick up the arse to shoot more/better stuff.

I think there should be a time limit - if a model asks politely 5 years after the shoot that she would like the image removed or at least have herself untagged then the photographer should respect that and not be stubborn about it. Yes you paid but 5 years use out of it is pretty good going better than most electrical appliances or even cars these days so just be cool.



That's a nice, progressive analogy comparing models to objects.... By that rationale, would you said you got "good going" for 5 years on a brand new house that you paid for? When buying a car, you buy it knowing you will have to maintain it for it to last due to wear and tear at best. Similarly when you buy electrical appliances, you buy them knowing they will either fail at some point and the cost of repair exceeds the value of the appliance due to depreciation. When you take a photo, you don't really expect it to degrade or break down unless your storage medium goes kaput (shame on you for not having a backup). I think your comparison is deeply flawed at best.

Untagging is a perfectly reasonable request but if a model wants to have a set time limit on publication after the shoot, she should discuss that with the photographer beforehand - pre-shoot comms are something I pride myself on to minimise misunderstanding or disputes down the road. If an actor/actress stars in a film that was critically panned (or their performance), should the film studio/distributor "just be cool" if the said actor/actress asked them to cease publishing the film after 5 years when the actor has aged and possibly done better for themselves?

I do agree that it's good for a photographer to shoot more/better content but if they're particularly proud of work they did X number of years ago, why should they remove it?






AGS is off-line
22 June 2016 22:27
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

Competent and fair points, people do need to be mindful though, especially doing what we do, that there is an element of trust, a duty of care, and several laws of protection, involved - not least the data protection act.

Participants who know their stuff, are aware of pitfalls, will account for it in any conversation, agreement, and release.

Where neither party wants to use their real name or contact details, how is any contract going to be binding when an issue occurs or demands are made on takedowns etc... food for thought.


RKD Photographic is off-line
29 July 2016 10:42
arkady001
Photographer
arkady001
Location
Europe
Germany
Iserlohn

Quote from AndyGStudios
Competent and fair points, people do need to be mindful though, especially doing what we do, that there is an element of trust, a duty of care, and several laws of protection, involved - not least the data protection act. Participants who know their stuff, are aware of pitfalls, will account for it in any conversation, agreement, and release. Where neither party wants to use their real name or contact details, how is any contract going to be binding when an issue occurs or demands are made on takedowns etc... food for thought.



I think the point is that any contract isn't going to be legally binding (assuming it was ever going to be) if the signatories didn't use thier legal names... When I do use a Model Release/Usage Agreement, the model has to use her real name, even though I agree to only use her stage name when tagging or for online references.

"When I hold a camera, I know no fear..." - Alfred Eisenstadt



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