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Back at work! Why is it so quite?

redbaron is off-lineSilver Member
26 March 2017 03:36
redbaron
Photographer
redbaron
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

I'm not sure I am quite as pessimistic as Bob, certainly where I have needed paid models there have been ample responses from good quality contenders. That said I do no do that very often so have not tested the limits of the pool I guess.

I do get the impression there is less in the way of models willing to shoot just for the 'experience' and a few photos but I'm not entirely sure that is a bad thing. They have simply got wise to the TFP circus ringmasters who would convince them they will get nowhere without serving time doinf free shoots. Only for the model to discover nobody is interested in paying for services someone else has got for free. Particularly if the free shoots are poor quality anyhow.

The sad thing is we have also lost those models who did simply want to do it for fun and to create something artistic or different. Genuine artistic collaborations and very hard to arrange now. Spoilt I fear by the level pushers and those too ignorant to uphold there side of the bargain. That is a deep shame

Anyhow welcome back Victoria. I know Matt is working on the upgrade hard and I am sure it will be worth waiting in the end. Ultimately however whether it makes a difference is down to people on this site. A new design will create a stir and through sheer curiosity a lot of people will come back to take a look. If they are welcomed and the site can develope its own distictive feel again there is no reason why it should not recover at least to a level where it is worth popping in for a chat and to look for people to work with again.
Photography and Studio hire www.immortaleye.co.uk


Hammertime.. is off-line
26 March 2017 07:34
Nemesis
Photographer
Nemesis
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Sutton

Welcome back Victoria....
When I first joined this site was great for amateur models who I could just try a few things out with TFP, It does seem to have changed, One I don't get as much abuse from other way up themselves photographers who are experienced and like to just put everyone down, be arrogant and disappear up their own arse regularly.
Seems now though even though less abuse there seems to be a drought of TFP amateurs, I was contacted the other day by an Amateur model, absolute mess (Vicky Pollard type) asking for work, I offered TFP, she declined and demanded a huge fee, to be fair I wouldn't have used her for anything, lovely models on here and have stayed friends with a few, but this was a mess.

Seems Amateurs whether good or bad no experience want to charge.. Done a few shoots for a few people for purely their use but as a model photographer I would consider myself an amateur, My specialty is in other areas, I would not consider charging for my time until I got to the standard of some of the superb modelling photographers on here.. Times have changed, If you want a decent practice model TFP go on Facebook and in the local selling sites, full of desperate single women looking for a bit of excitement, getting dressed up and having a few photos just does it for a lot of them...


AGS is off-line
26 March 2017 08:10
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

There is a small caveat to that mind, they promise you a shoot, then talk you into covering their kids party first, or some birthday or other... which you do in good faith, then they don't show. You later find out they've rung round getting prices, and settled on Mr Gullible cos it's free init TF or so they got told or read. Or they want a shoot, which you do, only to find out the pics can never see the light of day by request... the lady gets her dream shoot, you get nothing of value in return other than the joy of providing hours of work for chuff all in the end.

The word is out on TF, and finding paid work as a photographer is getting harder and harder; magazines are on it, newspapers are on it, fashion houses are on it... and it's always payment by credit, or i'll tell my friends, or i'll put your card in the window... or some other form of pay off that may even be costing someone other than them. I don't give these people the time of day... they don't respect there are bills to be paid, so I don't respect them right back.

In the end they will probably do it on their phone anyway. Public beauty portraits have given way for the most part by the selfie et al, and everyone who owns a camera in some form, calls themselves a photographer - owning one, and knowing how to use one are two completely different things; but try explaining that to Joe public. Rich types that would rather have a pro 8x10 ft print on their wall will probably call you, or those wanting their weddings done for £50... (and you should, cos you're better than that guy down the road... and he said he would if you don't) but that's about it these days unless you can flood micro-stock sites for a pittance return. Put things online and some grimy phukka finds a commercial use for it without asking, or spreads it round instagram claiming they need your donations to keep collecting and posting... "THEY CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT YOU" allegedly. One way or another we get screwed over in the end, there's always someone making money from your work, making some of us question if it's even worth doing in the current climate. Good lucking making any yourself mind.

Alt used to be a niche, now it's mainstream - not my thing at all.

Doesn't leave much does it... and don't get me started on models leaving the scene on grounds of safety because of touchy feely togs. And the good ones, get looked at like pervs... or we're expected to ask now if we want topless, or nude, or adult, like it's the only thing people shoot. In short it's getting a bad rap, and a bad rep. Some photographers don't help matters either by showing up, doing a shoot, and don't provide images. *shakes head slowly in disbelief* now wonder the world is jaded against us, and why people insist we pick up every cost involved.

It's all on the decline in one form or other. And I don't think we've hit the bottom just yet, when we do, i'm hoping for something of a bounce.

I'm going out for a walk... I may be some time Get some air, count to ten.

Speen vented /rant over... sorry.


Hammertime.. is off-line
26 March 2017 08:33
Nemesis
Photographer
Nemesis
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Sutton

Quote from AndyGStudiosthose wanting their weddings done for £50.



Lost track.........



AGS is off-line
26 March 2017 08:38
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

... not at all surprised


redbaron is off-lineSilver Member
26 March 2017 11:49
redbaron
Photographer
redbaron
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Quote from AndyGStudios
There is a small caveat to that mind, they promise you a shoot, then talk you into covering their kids party first, or some birthday or other... which you do in good faith, then they don't show. You later find out they've rung round getting prices, and settled on Mr Gullible cos it's free init TF or so they got told or read. Or they want a shoot, which you do, only to find out the pics can never see the light of day by request... the lady gets her dream shoot, you get nothing of value in return other than the joy of providing hours of work for chuff all in the end. The word is out on TF, and finding paid work as a photographer is getting harder and harder; magazines are on it, newspapers are on it, fashion houses are on it... and it's always payment by credit, or i'll tell my friends, or i'll put your card in the window... or some other form of pay off that may even be costing someone other than them. I don't give these people the time of day... they don't respect there are bills to be paid, so I don't respect them right back. In the end they will probably do it on their phone anyway. Public beauty portraits have given way for the most part by the selfie et al, and everyone who owns a camera in some form, calls themselves a photographer - owning one, and knowing how to use one are two completely different things; but try explaining that to Joe public. Rich types that would rather have a pro 8x10 ft print on their wall will probably call you, or those wanting their weddings done for £50... (and you should, cos you're better than that guy down the road... and he said he would if you don't) but that's about it these days unless you can flood micro-stock sites for a pittance return. Put things online and some grimy phukka finds a commercial use for it without asking, or spreads it round instagram claiming they need your donations to keep collecting and posting... "THEY CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT YOU" allegedly. One way or another we get screwed over in the end, there's always someone making money from your work, making some of us question if it's even worth doing in the current climate. Good lucking making any yourself mind. Alt used to be a niche, now it's mainstream - not my thing at all. Doesn't leave much does it... and don't get me started on models leaving the scene on grounds of safety because of touchy feely togs. And the good ones, get looked at like pervs... or we're expected to ask now if we want topless, or nude, or adult, like it's the only thing people shoot. In short it's getting a bad rap, and a bad rep. Some photographers don't help matters either by showing up, doing a shoot, and don't provide images. *shakes head slowly in disbelief* now wonder the world is jaded against us, and why people insist we pick up every cost involved. It's all on the decline in one form or other. And I don't think we've hit the bottom just yet, when we do, i'm hoping for something of a bounce. I'm going out for a walk... I may be some time Get some air, count to ten. Speen vented /rant over... sorry.


Feel better for that

You are quite wrong of course. At least when it comes to the real world outside these sites. There is a reasonable living to be earned in portrats but the caveate is earned. That means a lot of training in sales and marketing as well as photography. Which does not come cheap. I get quite dissappointed if I don't get at least £250 from a one hour portrait session. It is alas about self belief too. If you do not believe your work is worth real money you won't have the confidence to ask for it..
Photography and Studio hire www.immortaleye.co.uk


AGS is off-line
26 March 2017 23:47
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

Actually I do lol... really helps to get it down on paper, or onto the screen... very therapeutic I think a lot of it IS true, just not around you for some reason, do they not like tats down there or something? An abundance of models who pay for shoots maybe?

Sales and Marketing is where I fall flat, not my thing at all, im a photographer, not a marketeer or sales guy. I believe in the images speaking for themselves, not in shoehorning people into things they may not want. I've worked in several retail outlets too, same effect there... "how much is this" (they obviously want it) "how much, feck no" and they put it back. Folks here prejudge the price, and when the actual is more than the expectation, they are out the door, or asking for it cheaper / discounts / being a bit if a cheeky jack the lad, trying it on.

Do they want it - YES, can they afford it - NO (mostly.)

Welcome to Yorkshire lol

Asking for payment confidently however isn't an issue though, I do that and more every year when I sue someone for image theft, i've one going through right now as it happens, commercial... again. Most i've been able to charge though, up here, int' north, where brass is a bit thin ont' ground, is £50 a session (portrait) 2hr (pics on disc). More than that and people walk away to "think about it" and you never hear from them again. Owned a studio, been there, tested those waters, and that's what I found. You can ask it, you don't always get it. My area isn't rich, or filled with people with cash bursting out of their wallets eager to be spent. Pretty much everyone is on the bargain sites, and buying BEKO products instead of well known brands, everything here is the least costly thing or it's passed over for something cheaper that gets the job done. Hence my 50 quid wedding comment - yes there really are folks up here that do weddings for 50 quid. Mind-blowing isn't it. No editing, just pics on a disc... same day. Just the way it is up here. Yorkshire people are very cost-conscious.

Coming back to what you said though, people who are in more affluent middle class areas, don't see the struggle of people in lower working class areas, so it must not exist, it's all in your head. True that, a ton of youtube vids say it too, mostly american. Money doesn't flow here the way it does down south. And that's why I became a truck driver instead... it pays and it pays regular wages that pay bills. I gave photography 10 years and finally chucked in the towel as a not happening career, defeated. I might have the eye to get the shot, and yes I feel my skills are wasted, but people really can't afford to, or just plain don't want to, pay for them... happy with less. People ask instead for the JPGs, because, ya know, they cost nothing... it's just an email - *find wall / bang head* so be glad you are... where you are. For whatever reasoning, successful people NEVER accept that.

I know you can say im talking crap, but unless you've actually been up here, and tried it - you (meaning people in general, not you as a person you) can't actually, truly, know. And to be fair, I feel im wasting my time on these model sites, and find myself occasionally asking why I still value having a profile. At the moment, I don't have an answer, what's keeping it here... just plain bull headed stubborness.

...plus... you can show nipples

LOL


redbaron is off-lineSilver Member
28 March 2017 09:56
redbaron
Photographer
redbaron
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Believe me Andy I was in exactly the same spot here for several years until I started getting proper training on sales and marketing. I take it you meant £50 per digital image of course. Think that may be a bit steep unedited but if the client is willing to pay i guess
Photography and Studio hire www.immortaleye.co.uk


AGS is off-line
28 March 2017 10:23
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

Guess i'll have to do that then.


Anthonygh is off-line
04 April 2017 08:29
anthonyh
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent


I think Purpleport has 'critical mass' now....like a gravitational black hole, it is large enough to suck in any new models.

To be blunt, the last few I have worked with (from there) hadn't even heard of this site. But if it is any consolation...they didn't know of any other sites either (other than FB).

But it is good that there are some on here that find it works for them.



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