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Opinions on photographers who put up TF/collaboration castings for nude shoots?

Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
24 January 2018 13:33
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


I guess this would be more applicable to models but lately (more so on purple port) I've noticed a spike in togs requesting the model work to nude level for no payment. I get that collaborative shoots are a good way of building connections and ensuring that both parties gain from the experience but that is completely at the discretion of the model as to whether they choose to even provide their services for free at all, and then they go even further to request a model specifically work to only nude comes across as a bit opportunistic and ballsy, if not also cheap and slightly deluded? What are your opinions?


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
24 January 2018 15:25
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

As the saying goes:

If you don't ask... you don't get.

But sadly yes, there's a lot of photographers out there who take the mickey with this, and with many of these castings it does merely benefit the photographer. Yet you will still get models falling over themselves to work with certain 'celebrity' photographers, just so they can say they have (even if said photographer's not really anything special). And it's especially cheeky if the photographer uses the images commercially (I've known models do TF shoots and then the photographer goes and sells prints of the images), but as with anything... it's a calculated risk on the model's part as to whether she'll get images at all or the photographer doesn't abuse the situation by making hard cash out of it (it's immoral more than anything as everyone has to be able to put food on the table).

That's not to say all castings are bad though, and some collaborations work well. It's being able to spot them that's the problem.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Hammertime.. is off-line
24 January 2018 16:21
Nemesis
Photographer
Nemesis
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Sutton

I'm really not into nude shoots, I much prefer the variety you can get from odd clothing, the grungier, or gotier the better


Bob is off-linePlatinum Member
24 January 2018 16:29
Bob
Photographer
Bob
Location
United Kingdom
Devon
Honiton

Quote from Kimmikitsch
I've noticed a spike in togs requesting the model work to nude level for no payment.
What are your opinions?


Hopefully these castings are being filled and it's a first step towards photographers gaining parity with models, as at the moment the situation on t'internet sites is completely stacked against one of the two parties working together to create images.

However, having just listened to the piece on The One Show discussing why it still deemed pretty much the norm for the male to almost always pick up the tab for the female, I suspect equality for blokes (which, of course, is what the vast majority of photographers are) is still a very long way off.

Personally, I reckon those who demand more cash for revealing more flesh both make nudity seem 'naughty' and cheapen the modelling scene... but that's possibly another story.

Bob











Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
24 January 2018 16:35
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Quote from Bob
Personally, I reckon those who demand more cash for revealing more flesh both make nudity seem 'naughty' and cheapen the modelling scene... but that's possibly another story.



Depends on what sort of nudity though.  If it's 'fashion nude' or artistic, then it can seem a bit off (top models will charge their day rate regardless of nudity or not), but I think it's definitely fair game for a model to charge more if it's sexually charged / adult nudity.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Anthonygh is off-line
24 January 2018 17:36
anthonyh
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent


A shoot is a shoot is a shoot.....if both parties are up for it....what's the problem? Whatever the agreement regarding payment...or lack of.



FStop is off-line
24 January 2018 18:59
FStop
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent


This is an intetesting one on a few levels. I really think that models need to choose who they work with for TFP. The photographer is footing the bill for expensive equipment and there time and skill.
So the model gets the use of all these things. Unless tog is selling the pics it's a expensive.

Personally I would rather pay the model and not have to supply any images. Far to many models have asked for pics even though I agreed to pay them. Some models want it all, in my experience.


AGS is off-line
24 January 2018 22:26
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

Commercial or hobby use?

Why are you asking for X Y or Z ? - fun, practice, to profit from, to hand in and keep some clothing...jewellery .. to get a competition win, or for use of a national or international publication? where the photographer works TF, but the images are commissioned and the model is paid, or visa versa.

What does the model want out of a shoot ? everything usually - why is it so bad that the photographers posting these nude tf castings should expect the same? What can a gwc do with a bunch of fashion shots other than practice... nothing. so, no incentive. People don't often want to buy images of fully clothed people relaxing reading a book, or catching a bus, drinking a cuppa, or walking down a street unless it's commercial use. Many gwc's don't WANT to practice, don't WANT to improve, they just want to take pics of nudity. Because... reasons. Genuine improving photographers would have no issues with such a casting as long as they know the purpose of the shoot. Long as both parties are fully informed and happy I see no problem.

TF for commercial gain - wouldn't touch it with an electric cattle prod. Pay me for my skills or do one.
TF for fun, practice or mutual benefit - sure why not, if you're comfy and happy with the idea, go for it.

TF is for fun, learning, practice, and enhancing non profit portfolios. If you're paying a model, don't give images, if they value your work and want to profit from it, charge them so you don't lose out. If you both have skills, charge accordingly; Everyone wins. But the concept of TF has gone way too far... TF Weddings ? blow me. TF commercial / point of sale - unless im getting a job from it - these are my rates. Want to use one of my images - pay for it. If it's a TF shot, Is a model involved - if so - pay her half, you're selling an image of her so discuss it with her - and while you have copyright - don't be a dick with it.

Photographers can take pictures of anything - but models, aren't models without them (a fact that's often overlooked), and if we all stop taking the blatant pi$$ - we might all be doing more creative shoots more often, and fulfilling the very reasons we signed up on these sites.

There are people on these sites who don't research 'how' to be either a model, or a photographer; they just dive in n hope they do it right, and there-in lies the problem. They aren't doing it right, and the rest of us pay the price as more and more unsuitable people appear looking for a 2nd income. Fresh new models appear and are inundated with pervy requests so much they get jaded and leave.

But don't be surprised at the requests for nudity, you signed up to a model site which includes nudes... why do you think it odd people would be casting for nudes? tf or otherwise? Besides, photographers have to do it, models sure aren't lol.



Copperbronze is off-line
25 January 2018 09:00
Copperbronze
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
New Malden

There's plenty castings with models outlining a shoot they'd like to do then quoting their rates. As for nudes, you cast the widest nest to catch the most fish, simple as that.


Art Decade is off-line
03 March 2018 09:32
Ohio
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Midlands
Sutton Coldfield

Quote from Kimmikitsch
that is completely at the discretion of the model as to whether they choose to even provide their services for free at all



You seem to of answered your own question, and regardless of the shoot levels if a model decides to do it for free to gain either experience in a particular genre or just for the images, yes it is down to their discretion. Along with the fact that there are several models who will only shoot TF with chosen photographers yet not with others which is usually down to them either wanting to work with that particular photographer or they already have a good rapport.

I personally have turned away models wanting to do TF even nude/adult styles yet some I've done several shoots with as we know we'll get good images both of us can use,so it does swing both ways. And as mentioned earlier in this post some only do certain levels for the money, it has nothing to do with them wanting to produce creative images which can be likened to the photographers who offer extra cash for higher levels, and in both situations like that it can show in the resulting images.

And there is a slight misconception of the term 'free', especially when it is your profession, as they say time is money and apart from probably spending anything up to a day shooting you then have too factor in the editing time.

I'd like to add this to the mix as well, I have seen several models stating they are after certain images they'd like shot for their ports and are asking to be paid for doing them, so isn't that the same as you have pointed out? Plus what they seem to forget if it is a paid shoot they aren't entitled to any of the images.




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